When you arrive, park your car, check in, and hit the slopes. The East is home to a lot of great ski resorts with legendary terrain. . Visit Colorado or Tahoe. The Christmas ski crowds at Steamboat are usually smaller than most other resorts, so it's a great place to feel like you've truly escaped at Christmas. Just a few hours east though, Sun Peaks provides a more relaxed atmosphere that caters to everyone in the family. If you continue to use this site we will assume that you are happy with it. White Cap is a four-season resort in Northern Wisconsin that sits within the ancient Penokee Mountains, about 2 hours away from Duluth International Airport. Mammoth Mountain Ca. Non-skiers can enjoy cross-country or snowshoe trails nearby. And its 300 days of sun per year ensure youll be able to take in stunning views of Lake Tahoe below. The town of Taos is nowhere near the mountain. Plus, theres a solid mix of beginner, intermediate, and expert runs that makes it, we think, one of the best all-around resorts on this list. Unfortunately, with it joining Epic, everyone else knows that too. , I could be cross-eyed but this is what I have right now: Was there for first time in January 2020. Go for a swim with thekidsin one of three swimming pools,and get in your daily workout in one of the resort's two fitness centers. Escape the crowds this winter, find an unsung ski resort to explore. The average snowfall is 200 inches across 400 acres and 43 runs, and there are trails for all ability levels. Here are 11 fabulous options for an epic, uncrowded ski vacation in the United States. Ouray is really famous for its ice climbing park and hot springs. Word on the street is that Copper Mountain in Colorado debuted a new "Secret Season Pass." For $100 more than the regular season pass ($509 vs $409), skiers can access the mountain 15 minutes earlier than mere mortals. If you don't mind handling some crowds, though, Sunapee is a great place for intermediate groomers and cruisers IMO. And the closest major metropolitan area (Vancouver) is 5.5 hours away so youre pretty much guaranteed to have all that snow to yourself. There is no one be all, end all. Smugglers Notch But dont let Windhams small size fool you: the trails are plentiful, the conditions are perfect, and the nearby lodging is oh-so-cozy. Sun Valley, Idaho Known as "America's First Destination Ski Resort," Sun Valley has over 2,400 acres of terrain spread out over two distinct mountains. And theres nothing more frustrating than the other side of that coin when youre competing in a high-stakes slalom amongst snowplowing newbies and unfathomably large crews of snowboarders thatve found a way to clog every trail. You can see the circus come to town. New Hampshire's Black Mountain, nestled among the White Mountains, is considered classic, old-school skiing; the resort has been around for nearly 84 years. This means shorter lines and more time on the slopes. Parks might be pretty empty because everyone who lives there has to work though, so if you just want to lap park you might be ok. Well Im not really picky when it comes to snow cuz Im used to skiing nothing but ice here on the east coast. Besides the lift tickets, you have to pay for lodging, food, and maybe even rentals, so going on a family ski vacation can be daunting. The key with Christmas is to not miss first chair. I'm in the Southern End of the French Alps, and can see two ski stations from the kitchen window- or at least could if it would stop snowing on the young and delicate shoots I try and ski from the first lift up until lunchtime or so. Kirkwood Ca. I suppose you'd have to ask the Tripfind Staff what their criteria was. Once you settle in at the resort there are a myriad of lodging options youll enjoy everything this family mountain has to offer. In fact, its one of the most popular resorts in the US. crowds are usually pretty decent and lodging is cheap. Were actually heading down to Taos this January to experience it ourselves. San Francisco is not only less crowded but warmer, and it's not lacking in its holiday displays and activitiesfrom holiday ice-skating at Embarcadero Center to the tree lighting ceremony at Pier. Find the Secret Fast Pass. Located less than one hour from Chicago, the beautiful and bucolic Mountain Top Ski Resort is the perfect weekend getaway from the city's hustle and bustle. When youre looking for smaller crowds, we recommend you start by choosing a destination thats not so easy to find. Ive been hitting the slopes since 63 and have made it my quest to sample as much terrain as my life will allow. Alyeskas seclusion makes it an appealing choice for those looking to really get away; and its legendary terrain, including endless bowls and the longest double-black run in the world, put it at the top of this list when it comes to challenging skiing and riding. Great list and I totally agree with all your knowledge on the resorts. Walk around the historic town, which lies draped in Christmas lights, and peruse the local artisan market for special gifts for the folks who couldn't make it. And am also hopeful that things will improve but also thought Canada would allow me to visit our cottage by July.guessing there are some Canadian snowbirds that now share my displeasure. lousy food and crappy snow cats ksampson3 Mar 31, 2019 crested butte ski area epic pass epic resorts holiday ski area crowds kirkwood ski area least crowded ski area at christmas skiing at christmas telluride ski area ksampson3 Giving 80% effort 100% of the time Skier Joined Apr 25, 2017 Posts 244 Location Ice Coast Mar 31, 2019 #1 Been to Lake Louise Mid-week and I was in total shock. The town of Taos is only 15 mi from the Ski Valley there are plenty of places either high$ fancy or bottom$ cheap to eat your choice!! A heated walkway village. Quiet ski resorts for upmarket skiers. Its lift lines are about 10% as long as brecks. When you book a stay at Big Sky, guests save with perks such as slopeside lodging, reduced lift tickets, rentals, and more. We get it. With plenty of beginner runs and an excellent ski school, Okemo is one of the best family resorts on this list. 7 Best Ski Resorts in Utah, 2022/23 Written by Jack Lee / Photos by Greg Burke Last updated May 22, 2022 Utah is truly a snow mecca in the US, boasting 14 ski areas, 10 of which are conveniently located within an hour drive from the city. Last year Homewood announced they will be going semi-private in the next few years. There are 162 trails (34 percent intermediate) and 13 lifts to get you skiing on the slopes. Cooper, formerly known as Ski Cooper, is one of the most affordable ski resorts in the United States. Too bad SV has such a meager average snowfall. So he set out to find a mountain that would not bore all of these experts that never really materialized. Solitude is no longer just that. Find it: 57 Schuss Pass Road, Waitsfield, Vermont. For first tracks, try hucking the glades and bowls on the backside of Cowboy Mountain first thing in the morning. Sugarloaf is in the heart of the Carrabassett Valley in Maines Western Mountain area. *Jackson Hole Wyo. Now, more than ever, having inside info to the lesser known and least crowded Colorado Ski Resorts is paramount to having a good ski season.Luckily we have the 411 to give y'all an exclusive insider guide to the top 7 least crowded ski resorts in Colorado. It has a gorgeous bar at the summit and a grand resort hotel too. Steamboat presents some of the best tree skiing on earth. There are all kinds of Christmas concerts, decorations, and festivities both on and off the mountain to enjoy. And it's only accentuated throughout Christmas. Hi, I'm looking for a resort to ski at this Xmas for a short break - 22nd to 26th Dec. Can. The mountain is also part of a co-op founded in 1995, making it one of America's few cooperatively-owned ski areas, and is one of the few skier-only mountains left. Big mountain terrain with local town feel. Top 10 resorts for crowd-free skiing - the Guardian But it accumulates every bit as much powder, with a staggering 450 inches of annual snow falling within its 1,260 acres. Also, they offer a great package deal for lessons! For those on the Epic Pass, Kicking Horse should be on your to do list now before the secret gets out. Part of the 480 acres of beginner and intermediate skiing, includes some expert terrain in . Because of the proximity to Yellowstone (about an hours drive from the resort), they recognize that they coexist with the same ecosystem and made a deep commitment to sustainability. These resorts are spread out over a vast area with many different climates. Okemo has fantastic terrain, snow, and accommodations; its an incredible place to ski in the East. Alta first opened its doors to skiers in 1939, making it one of the oldest and most-storied ski resorts in the U.S. 9 Most Magical Christmas Ski Resorts - Skiing Kids Both have trails that challenge you like Stowe and have a superior line down the fault line, unlike Smuggs. Some of the world's premier ski resorts are in Colorado. While we wont begrudge you if these behemoths in North America are a top priority to shred, we thought it would be fun to share some alternatives to the most popular ski resorts. Turns out the key to avoiding crowds while skiing is to opt for mountains you might not know about. Lodging is available around the mountain. The average snowfall of 140 inches covers 415 skiable acres and 500 feet of a vertical drop. 10 Best Cheap Ski Resorts in Colorado, 2023 | PlanetWare Lodging includes a hotel or private homes. One of seven in ALL of New England with a top-lift elevation that reaches above 4,000. Stay downtown, Salt Lake City, enjoy great food and try one of 8 ski resorts in 40-60 minutes drive! Snowbird has been my absolute every year. US Picks: In the evening, you can look for the Northern Lights dancing across the sky as you night ski. But, the charm doesn't stop there. Now, this data is flawed. great intro to western skiing. Skiing Facts, Snowboarding Inspiration, History, & Lore! Do yourself a favor and go to one of the spots mentioned in the article ? Finish off the journey with a pit stop in Vegas (if thats your thing) which is about 200 miles away before you jet home. Nordic Valley expanded recently, adding 300 acres, 12 new trails, and their first six-person high-speed chairlift. March. It oozes class and history. Jay Peak is a family-friendly ski resort with endless activities to do. California - June Mountain. Some of the most popular activities to do here include skiing, snowboarding, Nordicskiing, snowshoeing, and dog sledding. Wolf Creek Ski Resort Wolf Creek Ski Resort. If it takes 2 days to get to its always been worth it. Now on the map for being a destination for culinary excellence. Best least crowded mountain during Christmas - Ski Gabber Its a bit off the beaten path (150 miles east of Boise), which keeps the crowds down and the lift lines short, but access is still easy thanks to a number of national carriers providing seasonal non-stop flights to Friedman Memorial Airport, just 13 short miles from the base of Bald Mountain. For those wanting to enjoy the greatest snow on Earth but at an affordable price, consider a visit to Brian Head Resort. But the crowning jewel of this mountain is its backdrop: It's the only ski area on the East Coast to boast ocean views. Enjoy and sample the sweet New England Maple-y glades. Vail Colo Sun Peaks is also a wonderful alternative to Whistler with more consistent weather and world class amenities. Dining is available both on and off mountain, including the expanded deck at the Paul Bunyan Room, the aprs ski hotspot. You wont find any chain stores, just authentic buildings from the old days. The Colorado Gems are a series of eleven small and affordable ski resorts in Colorado's Rocky Mountains that still have old-school charm with far fewer crowds. Do yourself a favor and read the book about Ernie Blake and the making of Taos Ski Valley. It is nestled amid the Wasatch Mountains in a unique microclimate environment that differs from the surrounding areas; the location is characterized by 500 inches of high-volume, low-moisture snow every year. 1. 136. It was in my condo when I drive down there from Denver and spent a week. Try Snowbasin near Ogden. Taos New Mexicothe sky,perfect snow and fantastic array of dining options to satisfy anyone! Now the terrain totals 450 acres, five lifts, 32 runs, and offers the best night skiing in Utah. White Cap is spread out over three mountains: Thunderhead, Eagles Nest, and Whitecap Mountain. Agree is not worth. View Alpe d'Huez ski holidays here. The big draw for families is the collection of ski schools accepting children from the age of three. Fortunately, you just need to seek a ski area thats a bit further away from an international airport and large cities or head to the lesser known ski area next to it. What an enchanting place . slow lifts & a rope tow ?? Ski Cooper is a lot more affordable, enjoyably less crowded, and offers a solid stash of trails to explore. If you want to enjoy the legendary deep snowfall but without the masses, head to Powder Mountain. Experts will enjoy Captain Jacks Trees & Beer Belly while intermediates will froth over the goods flanking the Paradise Lift. 9. A perfect excuse to visit again! Lastly, for those with kids 12 and under, they can ski and snowboard for free at June Mountain every day of the season, including holidays. 7 Least Crowded Ski Resorts in Colorado - msn.com 3,200 feet vertical off the top. Your email address will not be published. Pro Tip: Plan on having an incredible meal surrounded by stunning views while perched on the side of Bald Mountain at the Roundhouse. RELATED: Anyone Looking For A Party Will Want To Check Out These 22 Ski Resorts. Grand Targhee Wyo Ski Pioneers: Ernie Blake, His Friends, & the Making of Taos Ski Valley https://www.amazon.com/dp/1560441577/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_pe8FFbXBKX6PW. Heres just a small taste of the least crowded ski resorts to visit this winter. Hard to believe Utah ski resorts didnt make the list. People spread all over the mountain quickly rare are days when you have lines. The terrain, the people and its status as one of the least crowded ski resorts in Colorado, all make A-Basin a destination. Closer to SLC than Powder Mtn. Well worth the visit! Angel Fire also offers night skiing, and non-skiers will love tubing, sledding, and the cross-country and snowshoe trails. If youre willing to go just a bit further (a lot further) north than youre used to, youll be rewarded with one of the best hidden gem ski resorts in America. 8 Most Popular Ski Resorts To Avoid (And Where To Go On Your Ski Trips) Taos Today, Jeanine is working as a writer full-time. And if skiing isnt your thing, check out what to do at Crested Butte besides skiing. The only thing I would change is Bridger Bowl instead of Big Sky. Utah has some awesome skiing. And with minimal tree skiing, visibility on a storm day can be difficult. Each year their snow is wetter and the season is shorter. Thank you so much for correcting me. After spending 28 years in Sun Valley, Id say you are correct. Escape the crowds: Quiet ski resorts to try this year America's Top 15 Budget-Friendly Ski Resorts - Trips To Discover . Theres a good chance youll pretty much have the entire place to yourself. It looks like you are using an ad blocker. You can tear it up for at least an hour with no lift lines, then another hour of strategic singles line usage. Are Ski Resorts Open On Christmas? | HobbyKraze Anyways, just a few ideas to ruminate about. What Are The Challenges Of Holiday Staffing? 17 Top Cheap Ski Holidays in North America, 2023 | PlanetWare i go to taos every year. Snowbird is much much better. Repeat. The views are spectacular, and the terrain is off the hook! Last season, the resort opened 380 acres of new, expert-only terrain on Bald Mountain, and for this coming season, a U.S. Forest Serviceapproved forest health project has opened up a significant amount of new gladed tree skiing. Local Freshies LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising & linking to Amazon.com. its got the pueblo, some galleries, cheap souvenir shops and a few places to eat. You can still find advanced and technical fall line skiing on Madonna Mountain. 2) Which resorts have the best chance of having good snow and open terrain (and lower crowds if at all possible). Known as the birthplace of destination skiing, Sun Valley has more than 3,400 vertical feet and more than 2,000 acres of varied terrain. Big Sky is located midway between Bozeman and West Yellowstone, Montana, in the Madison Mountain Range. See also 11 Best Vermont Ski Resorts for Families (2023) #1. Aspen has always been the hotbed of the ski-town scene. Good for her. Loon is the 2nd most crowded ski resort in New Hampshire (behind Bretton Woods). Norquay instead. Its remote location in southwest Montana also makes it a bit more difficult to get to than the resorts located near a major airport. Same with Alta, solitude, Brighton. 7 Best Ski Resorts in Utah, 2022/23 - SnowPak If you're looking in BC, I'd recommend Whitewater or Red Mountain as far as sick terrain, great snow and tiny lines. Just a scant 5% of winters see Alta with less than half of its terrain open on Dec. 25. great terrain and Lake Louise (mid week) stunning views and great variety of terrain Rainier Gondola, which takes passengers up 2,400 vertical feet to the summit over about 12 minutes. Best Ski Resorts for a Crowd-Free Christmas Ski Holiday Don't know much about other places but I've been to Targhee, Wolf Creek, and Powder Mountain. But dont worry. Eighty percent of the resort is lit from 3 p.m.7 p.m. Monday through Thursday, and until 8 p.m. on Friday and Saturday. I carried an old backpack and would put my shoes in that and stash it in the trees on my first run and retrieve it on my last run. For us it comes down to people the less people the better the experience the longer the snow lasts. But venture out and about. Also Banff/Sunshine.the Goat Eye lift. Aprs isnt just a few brews but rather an extension to the high quality skiing available at the assortment of ski resorts. #1 AND #3 are by far the hardest to get in pretty much any ski town. Popular winter activities to participate in includeNordic skiing, sleigh riding, bowling, andice skating. Forget Utah! Pro Tips: Grab a drink at the Wooden Nickel, the oldest saloon in town. This cozy 650-acre resort gets over 360 inches of that world class pow at a fraction of the price. Photo: . Hope for a pow day and travel warnings to deter jerries. Boyne Mountain is an hour and 20 minutes from Traverse City Airport. LOVE IT . The street was once home to brothels, political scandals, and gang rivalries so intense at times that it made it unsafe to pass. You'll find the village has . In fact, the snow is so dry that it seems to be made of bird feathers (dont worry no birds were harmed in the making of the snow). After time on the slopes, take a break and head to nearby Glacier National Park or check out the Summit Nature Center, where kids can sign up to be a Junior Snow Ranger to learn about where animals go in the winter, snow safety, and more. Haha I get it too. While this isnt exactly a low-profile resort, its sheer size allows skiers to find plenty of space to themselves. By February, the mountains are fully open, so there is a ton of terrain to cover. Its a shining example of me having to learn more. Sign us up. Youre not going to find designer stores, oyster bars, or decadent mountain lodges lining the streets of Wolf Creek. All it says is "The following ski resorts boast some of the most wide-open trails in North America; appropriately, they also have some of the continent's shortest lift lines." With A Busy Ski Season Looming, How to Avoid Crowds at Resorts This Winter The terrain parks are innovative, creative, and allow you to build on your skills, appealing to riders of all ages and abilities. If youre like me, youre deciding where youre going to hit the slopes and searching for a destination that ticks all the boxes. Resort Opening Day for 2022-2023 Season: Keystone Oct. 22, 2022 Breckenridge Nov. 9, 2022 For those less advanced, the mountain has the Loveland Valley, a separate area specifically for beginners with its own lifts and easier terrain. Best places to ski - Christmas | Alps2Alps Ski Transfer Blog All I can say is dont visit alta leave it be I promise you guys wont like it a bit. Local Freshies tip: If youre staying on the south shore, keep your eyes peeled on road closures. Crested Butte is a close second. If you dont ski, the snowmobiling, cross-country, and snowshoe trails are just as exciting. 3. Once you head off the main trails and make your own path, youll become addicted. I promise it is to steep for you. Grand Targee for a laid back vibe and great pow Jaime and I were supposed to go back up to Baldface Lodge in Nelson this year for our 5 year wedding anniversary and its been cancelled. No people and great terrain. The resort prides itself on its variety of terrain and incredible beginner and intermediate slopes. 10 Ski Slopes That Will Have You Skipping The Long Ski Lines This Season, perennial favorites that are all about location, one of the largest ski resorts in the U.S. and Canada, Anyone Looking For A Party Will Want To Check Out These 22 Ski Resorts, Self-described as having The Greatest Snow on Earth,, Colorado certainly has no shortage of spectacular ski resorts, Of All North America's Ski Resorts, These Are Beginner-Friendly, Ski Season In The Northern Hemisphere: What You Need To Know, perfect weekend getaway from the city's hustle and bustle. Mount Snow. This is fantastic list of ski resorts and information. Best Time To Ski Aspen Mountain For Snow: Aspen receives less snow than some of its rivals to the east such as Vail, Beaver Creek, Breckenridge and Winter Park, so planning trips here over the holidays can be a tad riskier, but the Aspen resorts do a good job with snow making and all four mountains tend to have good . Just like Vail, Sun Peaks village gives a nod to European-style buildings as well, although when most think of British Columbia their thoughts go to Whistler where its rowdy, rambunctious, and home to a maritime snowpack (i.e. Best family ski resorts at Christmas - Slope Runner The resort is actually two different mountains Giant Steps and Navajo that connect to form 71 runs. SunValley.com 1. 9 Best Uncrowded Ski Resorts for 2023 | TripOutside.com Fresh news, events, and more from Ski Towns across North America. Im still a noob in the Native cultures and the diverse groups that exist in and around New Mexico. A local favorite of the beaten path and some fantastic terrain. Plus, on select evenings visitors can take advantage of public night skiing. hammer said: If you want to avoid crowds, then avoid Sunapee.in addition to the crowds, most of the trails from the summit aren't all that novice-friendly. Add a no-frills, good vibes-only environment; great views; and both downhill and terrain park adventures, and anyone will want to strap on those skis and hit the wonderful WI slopes. Least crowded resorts in northeast for christmas week? The Catskill Mountains are not as high as those in the West, with the vertical drop at 1,404 feet, but you can have a ton of fun at this historic gem. 7 Tips To Avoid Ski Crowds During the Holiday Season - Liftopia Blog And theres great news for those looking for access to first tracks: theres a heated, 8-seat lift on its way for the 2021-2022 season thats sure to efficiently disperse any potential crowds. And compared to the other resorts in Tahoe, youll have the powder pretty much to yourself. This mountain located in coastal Maine is small but mighty with 15 trails that service mainly intermediate skiers and snowboarders, including the mile-long Spinnaker, which starts at an intermediate level but turns beginner-friendly. TELLURIDE. Crested Butte fits that bill perfectly. Nordic Valley, nestled in the Wasatch Mountains, is only a few miles from Ogden, Utah, a town named by Forbes Magazine as the Third Best City to Raise a Family. Thats probably why it has high marks for its family-friendly atmosphere. See the CBSA website. Silver Star Resort is the BEST! Site of the 2002 Olympic alpine events. Dining, shopping, and activities are at the resort, but if you venture to town, youll find breweries, food trucks, and fine dining. 10 Best Ski Resorts for Christmas Holiday I agree, on a few of your assessments on places to ski, I have been skiing since 1955, living out west in Oregon, a lot of the areas you talk about are reachable in a long day or more drive. So let's have a look, at some excellent resorts, which offer a lot of these things. There are 60 runs (41 percent intermediate), 12 lifts, and seven terrain parks. Sun Peaks still the place to visit, no crowds after the usual lift opening, great glade skiing and wide open cruisers. Get there quick, though since Vail bought the resort in 2018, you can bet its in the process of becoming a lot more popular. This is a new concept for the 2014-15 shred season, but we think it may take off. Gather a list of ski resorts in North America, only within colorado and west of it (no one wants to ski east coast). You can stay at either area and ski over to the other using a series of chairs and trails. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Over 450 of snow a year, 1,125 skiable acres, and night skiing? It's no wonder it's one of the most popular ski resorts. The Least Crowded Ski Resorts In The U.S. Photo Modified: Flickr / TRAILSOURCE.COM / CC BY 4.0, Photo Modified: Flickr / Scott Brenner / CC BY 4.0. The hip word in the industry is called overtourism. Those looking to get out and explore can also hit up the more than 250 miles of cross-country trails (the area is home to the largest cross-country trail network in North America) or the 450 miles of snowmobile trails. . To find out more about the best ski resorts for Christmas, start your ski holiday search online or speak to one of our ski experts on 0207 471 7700. Ahhh! There is excellent value for money to be had when looking for some 'piste' and quiet at one of Europe's lesser-known ski resorts. LivingDaLife Stay away from the big resorts in Colorado, they'll all be super crowded for Christmas. It consists of more than 1,200 uncrowded acres to ski and snowboard on. Its the only one-of-its-kind in the Lake Tahoe Basin and why we find it one of the best places to ski on a powder day for one of your Tahoe ski trips. How to Avoid Crowded Slopes | Ski Butlers Wengen & Grindelwald ski holidays for Christmas . 6. Big Sky Wyo. Fifteen lifts lead to 121 trails (over 50 percent devoted to advanced and expert trails) with over 1,500 skiable acres and 2,700 vertical feet. Regarding your #3: Dont forget Silver Star and Apex. But despite this and adult day tickets cheaper than its neighboring resorts, Brighton remains under the radar for many skiers who frequent Utah. Click the link below for instructions on disabling adblock. Cool Off With Summer Fun In The Mountains, Image appears courtesy: Red Mountain Resort, 8 Of The Most Popular Ski Resorts To Avoid (And Where To Go On Your Ski Trips Instead). In short, this isnt the list of the most affordable ski resorts or a selection of our favorite non-Ikon or Epic pass holdouts. Tree skiers will love that around 30 of those runs are glades, and skiers of all kinds will be able to take advantage of 2,820 feet of vertical (the longest run is 3.5 miles!). I count 4 in US and 4 in Canada. Your email address will not be published. Le Massif de Charlevoix, Quebec, Canada, Jean-Sbastien Chartier/Courtesy of Le Massif, Per Breiehagen/Courtesy of Lutsen Mountains. *Sun Valley Idaho While the ski areas village isnt developed just yet, its only a matter of time before the major Summit Village is unveiled. Below, weve compiled a list of nine ski resorts where you can still access fantastic terrain and tons of fresh powder without sacrificing half of your day to buy lift tickets and wait in gondola queues you wont even have to wait an hour and a half to get an aprs drink.
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